Super-ego observations
General comments
Tinuvel: It depends on the purpose of relations. If short and casual, everything is fine. But if serious, initially it will be good and charming, then it will be perplexing - why are things suddenly so bad? Then again things will turn charming. And then gradually the number of difficulties, quarrels, and tantrums will increase. The partner that is sensing or logical or both in this case will be lost in guesses what went wrong, and with try-try-try, do-do-do - because this is love (presumably, by present emotions). Then will come fatigue and a feeling of hopelessness, because after all these efforts these relations do not significantly improve. They will search for some solution, some way out. Multiple break-ups are possible. Sometimes it all comes to an exhausting outcome such that parting becomes a mutual decision.
Perry: I see Superego as a relationship based mainly on respect. Respect at a distance. Superegos seeings each other in some casual social setting or indirectly participating in some activity, that's when they seem attractive. This is when you see them as your distant ideal. They seem reliable, worthwhile, solid, and sexually interesting. Somewhat reminiscent of one's dual. Superego becomes very uncomfortable under any other circumstances. Especially: being home alone, one-on-one, trying to solve your problems. Then, suddenly it turns out that they don't understand what you are doing, don't feel your motivations and your needs, or worse they are dismissive of them; your TIM's "program" is foreign to your superego. By their actions they indirectly sabotage the way that you anchor yourself (their creative - is your PoLR). Here, suspicions that this "sabotage" is intentional and resentments may develop. You appreciate your Superego when they take care of your Superego block tangentially i.e. not involving you for more than running some errands. But when you try to engage each other in your EGO block projects, instinctive understanding of each other's needs shows to be thoroughly lacking and disharmony becomes evident. Superego relations are very heavy in a small closed off family settings. It's like coming back home and suddenly having a 100 pound backpack dropped on your shoulders that you have to carry for the rest of the evening. Psychological suppression and discomfort. If they are married, they need several kids and many close relatives who can visit them, and opportunities to move places or travel around every year. This opens up their relationship to external influences and it becomes better because they get a chance to observe each other at a distance again and re-experience respect and admiration for each other.
IEI-SLI superego
DmitryS2 (SLE): I'm familiar with three cases of SLI-IEI relations. The beginning is always good. But I should make a note that in each of the three cases, the IEI did not have any dual experience and didn't know for sure "how it is when things are good". The SLI seemed business-like and very sensory i.e. like an appropriate match.
Then the usual superego discrepancies began, which bring everything to nothing. And, this process is rather painful for both.
The IEI cannot keep SLI's interest, or rather, cannot make SLI's world interesting and attractive, due to this the SLI "fades" - he cools off, retreats, withdraws into himself and his own interests. The couple as a couple often ends here. IEI's feelings are not what IEE's feeling are. IEEs can play with this. Draw near, then move to a distance. SLIs are activated by such games - they make them feel alive. IEIs don't play these games. For them this is unequivocal and to the end. Thus, they cannot "revive" and motivate the SLI on their Fi. Instead something to the opposite happens: the SLI "gets used" to them and cools off. The result is that the IEI feels "alone in the field" and in the relationship. What the SLI feels - he won't even say.
From the other end, the SLI does not give the IEI a sense of security. It doesn't matter what he attempts to do to fix this. The SLI won't turn into a SLE. He won't extend that unambiguous and soft, enveloping power, as the SLE does it (to cite one IEI). He won't motivate the IEI to "subordinate" to himself. The key word here is "motivate", not "force".
IEI's changeable emotions are unlikely to make a good impression on the SLI. On the contrary, this might affect some of the hmm ... some of SLI's male abilities. This isn't always so, but often enough this is a fact.
Also IEI's reaction to the way the SLI explains or requests things is often negative. The SLI will explain how something needs to be done. The IEI perceives this as a boring instruction or as a criticism on their "painful" function, that they are being criticized for doing something in the wrong way. Even if the SLI did not mean anything by this, such are the peculiarities of IEI's perception. As a result, the IEI feels herself foolish, incapable of doing things, and even completely inept. This lowers IEI's self-esteem, along with which her mood falls, and finally her attitude towards a person who, as it seems to her, is constantly putting her down. Yet again, there are peculiarities of their perception.
A couple more words about IEEs - they "wind up" from SLI's "let me scratch your back" much more than IEIs. Then the IEEs does or says something unexpected making SLI's world much more interesting by this, even during sex. They play around with attention. Apparently, this is supposed to "glue" the SLI to the IEE. That is, this is the consonance of suggestive and base functions. IEIs in this situation are awaiting Se. That someone takes them and makes them be a part of themselves. While for SLI this is a limiting, ignoring function. The SLI can exert himself and play it up for a short while, but it won't last long. Something like this.
Insomnia82 (IEI): I can give several examples of my interaction with an SLI:
1) New Year is coming. I'm waiting that the SLI will say something like "Let's meet it together. There are such-and-such options as to what we can do." - and I'll gladly go along with any one of these options, because the most important thing is that we'll be together. In actuality, he starts the conversation from a distance: "Have you thought about New Year? Where do you plan to meet it?" I should have said that I planned to meet it with him, but my first thought was: "Aha! He's asking me about my plans, which means that I'm not in his plans." So I answer him that I plan on seeing my family, which was stupid on my part, but that was my immediate reaction to his question.
2) The SLI doesn't call me for a long time. I'm thinking: "He is likely busy, doesn't miss me yet, or doesn't want to see me." Before him I've met with an LSI and an LSE who will call 10 times a day on their own and this didn't annoy me, because it was a confirmation that they are thinking of me, that they miss me and want to talk to me. An IEE would have already found a dozen reasons to call the SLI herself and lure him out, while I feel awkward calling first - what if I'm met with some unpleasant response? Then it will completely ruin my mood.
3) The SLI often explains himself by means of allusions and metaphors, by somewhat indirect means. While I am not completely certain what he meant: did he understand me right? was this some hint on his end? This, perhaps, was the most tedious part of our relations. It wore me out to have to always second guess. It was interesting, unusual, mysterious ... but wow, did I grow tired of this. I couldn't understand very well what he was trying to convey. The situation is: the SLI waits for some kind of actions on the part of IEI, while the IEI is unsure and waits for confirmation of his or her guesses or some action from the SLI. In our relations, I've often experienced a wish to know whether this is so or not so. Sometimes I felt myself an idiot, though at the same time I knew that this wasn't the case. Eventually SLI grows tired of this himself and simply disappears. When the IEI shows up next to him, he shows his demonstrative offense. The IEI wants him to finally understand, so that similar situations wouldn't repeat again. But for the SLI any kind of sorting out of relations is intolerable. What he wants is child-like happiness, intuitive lightness, and spontaneity.
Even after two years of these relations I don't have any negative memories remaining, only regrets that I couldn't do anything. I have positive memories for the most part.
Insomnia82 (IEI): I insanely like SLIs and get pulled towards them like a magnet. Once I've met a SLI man and fell in love with him. In those days I haven't heard anything about socionics. Immediately I noticed that in his presence I couldn't be myself. I wanted to be more delicate, more feminine, and deeply sincere, but to relax and be myself - that I couldn't do. And the persistent feeling of the complexity of our relations. It seems like you understand the person, and that he understands you, but intuitively you feel that this isn't so. There is no lightness, transparency in these relations. On the other hand, it is interesting, refined, sensual. It seems like very soon, any day now, there will be a breakthrough. But it never comes. Eventually you start feeling worn out emotionally, morally, there remains less and less strength to continue ... but you still feel the same pull towards one another. It seems like it's impossible to put an end to it, neither is there a possibility for the relationship to develop any further. After I got introduced to socionics, and "equipped" with various tips and theories, it seemed like: "Now I know what to do and how to act!" But this doesn't work again, because full understanding arrives only after the situation, while immediate reactions are not the ones that are needed in the moment. The SLI felt offended by my immediate reactions, while I would feel offended at his words, or at the lack of words that I was awaiting from him. Still, no other relationship for me has been as tender and sincere.
nimr-r (IEI): SLIs, in my opinion, are simply born to seek that which is concerting and emotionally agreeable with them. If they encounter something irritating, they'll either attempt to fix it or they will distance. When they can't distance, as introverts, they may simply tune it out and not see it even if they are directly facing it (e.g. don't hear the noise outside, don't see the exhausted battery and used cups around their laptop). They intrinsically poorly tolerate psychological and moral discomfort and try to thwart or evade it. For example, an SLI can say something to the other person only for that person to leave him alone, and then later forget all about what he has said because he has already solved "his problem" - he has regained his usual sense of emotional balance. The IEI eventually notices this and this is something that is disappointing to the IEI. The SLI may attempt to evade whenever the problem isn't urgent, or when the person making a request isn't valued by him. To put it simply: if it's not necessary, then the SLI won't do it - he/she is highly economical in actions. Neither is the SLI particularly farsighted and may miss impending troubles and dangers. The SLI deals with problems as they come ("carefree" type), quickly mobilizing in difficult situations, and usually knowing what needs to be done right away. But if there is an opportunity for the SLI to avoid difficulties, he will take it - he sees no point in prolonged showdowns. Does not endure moral pressuring very well, is easily disoriented under emotional "onslaught", poorly tolerates tears, enthusiasm, indignation, especially if such emotions quickly alternate.
LSI-EII
Lytov (LII): For the LSI life - is a constant war, a constant test of endurance, while the EII unconsciously expects completely different behavior, that is characteristic of his dual LSE (Stirlitz): to work a lot, earn a lot, and at the same time to minimize unpleasant elements and situations of the type "a test for fools". Or, in short: the LSI "chops wood - chips fly", while the LSE prefers it when there are as few "chips" as possible. My mother-in-law and her husband are of types LSI and EII. They have lived together for a long time. As my wife says old conflicts have long ago been exhausted. In many ways the situation is mitigated by the fact that they are friends with another married couple, ESE and SEI, whose presence at gatherings and holidays (and for my father-in-law - at work) partly improves their situation.
Laboratory_of_sleep (LSI): Relations between LSI and EII are not relations at all. LSIs don't understand EIIs because for us they are closed into themselves. I don't understand Dostoyevskies, and our relations cause discomfort.
shinee (EII): If you don't understand EIIs, you are to blame for this yourself! If you want to relate to a person, why not try to learn more about him/her? Talk with them, get to know them closer, and from there build relations. But with many LSIs if they don't understand a person - they immediately attach a label to them - "uncomfortable person". Do you think EIIs are worse than you? Our good relations need to be earned. The EII perhaps feels that you don't even consider him/her as a person, because he/she doesn't fit into your rules. For me LSIs are hard to understand. For some reason they think that if they have said something once, everyone needs to obey! Well, if it's well-founded and explained in the language of logic - that's one thing ... but they simply say something in form of declaration, and then get offended that no one is listening to them! - I honestly don't get this behavior.
Karo (ILE): shinee, here it's not needed to find someone to blame, especially that Dostoevskies can put labels to people like no one else. The person posted about discomfort in relations because that's how it is. And it's not needed to get into a pose "everyone offends me" because that's not so. It's easy to sit back, snivel and moan how everything is bad in hopes that some kind LSE is passing by and he or she will do everything for you. This often won't happen. In LSI's world everything is built with logical clarity. If he said so - it must be done. The LSI is not going to baby or try to persuade anyone. For babysitters contact the appropriate service. And if you need someone to tediously and at length build relations with you, better find yourself another Dost and complain to each other about everything in a row. Logical types have other goals in life. At one point, I've observed relations LSI-EII: the LSI was on the verge of some serious psycho-drama, the EII was complaining all the time. Occasionally, this spilled out on people around them. Good thing if it cames from EII, because an upset and angered LSI is the most dangerous phenomenon on the planet.
shinee (EII): About relationship LSI-EII, this is how my interactions with LSIs have come together. I speak from experience. LSIs initially seem to be pleasant, polite, and strong people, but at closer interaction aggression on the side becomes evident. I don't blame them for this - they simply need a more emotional and compatible partner than an EII. I for sure know that LSIs are not very compatible with me. My father is of type LSI - we haven't talked for a year, because he is a kind of person who will pressure, deny the right to choose and have other opinions, and may even say something crude and offensive. On other people he makes a good impression - he owns a house and a car, lives according to his own concepts and in order, maintains his social status, and is a polite and pleasant conversationalist. But behind that he needs to press and pressure others, often out of place and inappropriately, and prove that he is the smartest, smarter than my mom and me, and that you don't represent anything. In his logical picture of the world, I was already signed in as a rebellious daughter, but apart from his logical view there are simple human emotions, such as love and respect. That is something he seems to omit.
ILE-SEE
Ivan (ILE): My parents are of types ESI, mother, and SEE, father. They never take me for an equal. They don't understand my thinking and consider it "silly and immature". ILE, in his soul, is always a kid, but my thinking was already fully formed by the age 12-13. At this age I had determined my attitudes and opinions concerning almost everything (I knew for certain I won't smoke, drink, do drugs, etc.) Of course I didn't know a whole lot at this age and couldn't take every circumstance into account. My SEE father would tell me: "At your age I also thought I already know everything." SEEs at any age consider that they know everything. Most importantly, he considers that without talking to him I'm becoming more stupid. He tells me: "You have preferred your computer and your friends to me. I could have taught you so much ...." and so it begins, the stories about how cool he is, how smart he is, how athletic he is, how he could have been more, if not for ... (1001 excuses). The reason I stopped talking to him is that I understood how he really is. When I was a child, I considered him to be the best. I wanted to be like him - he was my model. Later, I understood that except for self-admiration there is no other purpose in his life. He doesn't search for truth - he only wants to appear smart in the eyes of others. Mimics an ILI. Back in 2012 he annoyed everyone by his "prophetic" theories about the end of the world, even though it was a no brainer that this is nonsense, as it was in 1996, and all the other years. Now he has a quirk for various pseudo-scientific programs and political ones. He works as a guard, and watches these pseudo-scientific nonsense only so that others would think him clever. And he is certain that all the "overly-scientific" programs on REN-TV is the truth of 21st century. There, they have declassified, uncovered, and given him all the secrets. What kind of nonsenses is this? Only an idiot would believe it. My current specialty is rocket building. I work as an intern at a factory KrasMash - all the technical processes there are 60 years old, the whole world has them already and many times better, yet they are classified so much that they can give you up to 15 years for disclosure. And here, on TV, they have suddenly declassified all the secrets for him! If that was true, all of the film makers would have been in prison for life, and the video would have been confiscated well before the airing. At a visit to the therapist he literally took on the subtype of LII and pretended that his thinking is 100% logical and intuitive, as he wanted to impress the psychologist so much. One time he met some truly intelligent people and they called him "an erudite fool". He wasn't at all upset at being called a "fool". He considers himself to be over-erudite, only a little bit behind the actual academics and scientists, because while they work in one, narrow field - he know about everything in the world! In reality, there is a huge and hopeless abyss between him and them. In his late 50s he arrived at such conclusions that I have already made back in grade school, and would tell of them with such serious look as if he discovered something completely new and unimaginable. I paid little attention to these conversations, thus he considers that I'm either not listening to him or not understanding him. I don't even try to argue with him, but leave it up to ILIs.
Observations by consentingadult
From my observations, Super-Ego relations can more quickly end in conflict than Cconflictor relations. I think this is probably because of earlier life experiences, where one has quickly learned to identify a Conflictor, which will make you walk on eggshells when interacting with a new Conflictor. Super-Egos, on the other hand, don't feel as much stress from the onset, are more open to express themselves, ultimately ending in open conflict. I have also noticed a difference between interacting with male and female Super-Egos: as a male myself, interacting with female SLEs often involves activation of a sexual attraction component of the interaction. It almost seems like both parties start to act from the Id-blocks (imitating each other's duals) in order to get into the other person's panties, so to speak. But ultimately one of them will start acting from their ego block and step on the other person's toes, and things can get pretty nasty from that point on, partners hitting each other where it hurts most. --Consentingadult 14:24, 11 March 2010 (GMT)