Talk:Rationality and irrationality

Typical characteristics

Where does this stuff come from? Maybe we need to document the sources and reasons because I don't think we all agree. Let's go line by line:

"Typical characteristics of rationals (shizotymes) percieves things as what they should be, and may believe they are like that"

This sounds like idealism. Are you sure about that? So for example an LSE or LSI, because that person is a rational type, takes an idealistic view, whereas, say, an IEE or ILE is more grounded in reality and less idealistic?

"may speak more with complicated grammar, and stutters finding complicated words"

That sounds like LII. Can it really be extrapolated to all rational types? This is also complicated by the fact that intelligence and education may also affect the complexity of one's grammar.

"usually have stiff movements"

Equally true of ethical types? Maybe we have to clarify "stiff."

"may have less moods - usually they are more stiff and rigid, and last longer than irrationals, especially men"

Again, this seems to perhaps be related more to logical vs. ethical types. I don't think SLI, SLE, ILI, and ILEs are known to be particularly moody. And, on the other hand, EIE and ESE I think are moodier or less "steady" in their mood.

"[edit] Typical characteristics of irrationals (cyclotymes)"

Most of the comments one would make here would just be reflections of those I made above. However, I don't think it's necessarily true that irrational types make more grammatical mistakes than rational types.

Overall, it seems there's got to be a lot more official "classical" information on rat/irrat we could include. Individual observations are interesting and should be discussed, of course. But I don't get the feeling that this topic is giving a clear sense of what the main Socionics positions are. --Jonathan 23:12, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

you should read dichotomies' charts on Rick's website. Machintruc 05:20, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

Okay, true, some of the same ideas are there. However, the overall emphasis is different on his chart. He has a lot more on that chart than appears here, so the things that I might question don't stand out as much on his site. Also, his wording is a bit different, so some of my critiques wouldn't apply to his list. Do you agree with what he says there? If so, maybe we can align this list more with the gist of what he has there. Also, the idea that rationals have better grammar isn't from his list; it makes sense logically, but doesn't seem to work empirically. --Jonathan 14:39, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm not sure I'd say that irrationals have a higher stress tolerance. Definitely more of a responsibility avoidance leading to an ignorance and avoidance of stressful situations, but in measure of actual stress capacity, rationals win by a longshot. --Polikujm 10:27, 29 December 2010 (GMT)

[edit]There are apparent contradictions regarding the Judicious/Decisive and Rational/Irrational Dichotomies.

Listed among the properties of Judicious types: “Consideration is very nice, that time during which you still don't have to make a decision. It's even better when it isn't necessary to do anything afterwards.”

This is barely compatible with the traits possessed by Rational Types. However, there are Rational Judicious types, namely LII, LSE, EII, and ESE. These types, as implied by their Rationality and Judiciousness, will tend to plan ahead and make decisions early, yet would devote plenty of time to considerations before making the decision.

Listed among the properties of Decisive types: “I will not get stuck in the process of consideration – it always ends in a decision being made.”

This is barely compatible with the traits possessed by Irrational Types. However, there are Irrational Decisive types namely ILI, IEI, SLE, SEE. These types, as implied by their Irrationality and Decisiveness, will tend to wait and see before deciding, yet would avoid getting stuck in the decision-making process.